MIN CC 06/06/1989MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 368
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON THE 6TH DAY OF JUNE, 1989 IN THE CITY HALL COUNCIL
CHAMBERS, LOCATED AT 1212 AVENUE M IN THE CITY OF HUNTSVILLE, COUNTY OF WALKER, TEXAS AT 6:45 P.M.
The Council met in a regular session with the following members present:
Jane Monday 0. Eugene Barrett City officers present:
Gary Bell James L. Carter Gene Pipes, City Manager
Ila G. Gaines William B. Green Ruth DeShaw, City Secretary
William L. Hammock Percy Howard, Jr.
William H. Knotts, Jr. Absent: Scott Bounds, City Attorney
CALL TO ORDER
"Save the Trees" Poster Winners Recognized
Mayor Monday presented the winners of the "Save the Trees" poster art contest, Miss Emily Resnick,
age 5, accompanied by her sister, Miss. Lillian Resnick, age 3. The Mayor then recognized the other winner
of the poster contest, Jessica Jarboe, and then displayed her poster for all to see. She then invited the
children or their parents to claim their posters to take home.
CITIZEN INPUT
Jack Kerr, Tom Rogers, and George Russell to discuss the trees in the Sam Houston Woodlands Homestead area
Rita B. Huff Humane Society - -Mr. Kerr read a resolution from individual members of the Rita B. Huff
Humane Society, as follows:
"WHEREAS: trees and other native plants not only provide beauty to our community but homes and food and
wildlife as well; and
"WHEREAS: the City of Huntsville takes great pride in being a designated bird sanctuary; and
"WHEREAS: birds and other wild animals when deprived of food and shelter suffer and cannot propagate their
species; and
"WHEREAS: we have a moral and ethical obligation to be good stewards and provide for the basic needs of song
birds, squirrels and other wild creatures.
"BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED THAT we respectfully request that the City of Huntsville take whatever extra
precautions as may be necessary to protect and preserve trees and other native wildlife habitat as
may exist on lands under the control of or impacted by city development or redevelopment
activities."
Mr. Kerr added, as an aside, that Sam Houston State University took steps to save a 100 year old
tree by allowing the faculty and staff to redesign an entire building, noting that is how important the tree
was to SHSU.
Walker County Historical Commission - -Mr. Tom Rogers presented a resolution of the Walker County Historical
Commission, signed by James D. Patton, Chairman on May 21, 1989, regarding the trees in Huntsville and
Walker County from the standpoint of historical interests of future generations as well as our own, as
follows:
"WHEREAS: a vast forest of magnificent trees of over one hundred species greeted our ancestors when they
arrived in TEXAS to settle our great state; and
"WHEREAS: these bountiful forests provided logs for their first homes, fuel for their fires, food for an
abundance of wildlife, as well as shade and beauty; and
"WHEREAS: Huntsville and Walker County are still blessed with remnants of the original great virgin forests
of East Texas including individual relic trees which provided shade for Sam Houston, Pleasant
Gray, Henderson Yoakum, their families and friends; and
"WHEREAS: these priceless examples of our natural heritage are falling to the chainsaw and bulldozer at an
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MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P° 369
alarming rate for roads, parking lots, sewer and water lines and other development.
"BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED THAT THE WALKER COUNTY HISTORICAL COMMISSION strongly urges the governing bodies of
the City of Huntsville and the County of Walker to take whatever means be necessary to protect
and preserve our native trees and other native plants and wildflowers which may be living and
growing on lands under city or county jurisdiction."
Mr. Rogers said due to time limitations, he would not read the letter to the Honorable Mayor and
City Council that outlines some individual examples of fine trees, which basically fall within the 147 acre
original grant to General Sam Houston. He then presented it to the City Secretary so that it can be placed
on file. He noted the letter includes a map showing the area in question. Mayor Monday asked if this has
been shared with Walker County. Mr. Rogers said it has not yet been shared but soon will be. Mayor Monday
also encouraged Mr. Kerr to share his resolution with the County.
Long Star Chapter of the Sierra Club [a citizens organization of 16.000 members in the State of Texasl,
(Wilderness & Forest Practices) - -Mr. George Russell, Chairman, Forest Practices, then read the letter from
the Lone Star Chapter, as follows:
"Lone Star Chapter Sierra Club is vitally concerned about the protection of all old growth forests
which may remain in the State of Texas. Our 16,000 members travel far and wide to visit, study and enjoy old
growth trees and associated birds and other wildlife. We are particularly concerned about the protection of
habitat suitable for species which rely on old - growth habitat for survival, such as the endangered
red - cockaded woodpecker. The old-growth short -leaf and loblolly pines which have survived on the historic
Sam Houston Woodland Homestead offer unique opportunities for studying longevity, natural mortality, the
growth of red -heart fungus, and other factors which might provide insight into the recovery of old-growth
reliant species.
"We strongly urge you to recognize the value of this modified remnant old - growth Texas native
ecosystem and that you take whatever measures as may be necessary to insure its protection and survival. We
are particularly concerned about the effects of stress including drought, soil compaction, and root and bark
damage of old pines which could encourage southern pine beetle attack and perhaps subsequent damage to a
significant portion of the pine component, both old growth and subsequent generations of naturally
regenerated native pines."
Mr. Russell then advised of an offer which was made to the Walker County Historical Commission from)
Education and Video Network by James A Jarboe IV Senior Executive Vice President. to start the ball
rollina to save historically significant trees in the area of the Sam Houston Homestead, he said the funds
will be offered to the City of Huntsville by the Walker County Historical Commission for the rerouting of
water or other utility lines to avoid disturbing said historical trees for the sum in excess of the
appraised value of the tree if any. After the significant historic trees have been saved, then the
remaining funds if any, may be used to save significant mature ornamental trees or other valuable plants or
plant communities.
Mr. Russell then presented a letter dated May 31, 1989 from Mr. Curtis Tunnelt, Executive Director
of the Texas Historical Commission in Austin, which is reproduced, as follows:
"As you know, tourism is a 17 billion dollar industry in Texas, and growing. All recent surveys
show that historic attractions are one of the primary interests of the travelling public. Huntsville and
Walker County are blessed with many historical attractions of statewide significance, and these can bring
significant tourist dollars to the area if they are properly marketed. Important to the appeal of your
historic attractions are the great trees which have created a cultural landscape of unusual beauty. Many
individual trees were literally part of the landscape in Houston's time.
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 370
"We at THC are concerned about the casual destruction of trees which are important to the history
rd economy of Walker County and Huntsville. We urge your support for planning which will preserve great
ld trees to complement your historic sites."
ide streets from Sam Houston Avenue to about Avenue S. --Ms. Elizabeth Delaney said many of us have talked
bout the historical concerns we have for the area that was the home of Sam and Margaret Houston. She said
e have a responsibility to protect our heritage and we need only look at the community now to see the
evastation that has been reaped in the last 30 to 40 years. She invited them to go to the corner of Sam
ouston Avenue and 17th Street and look towards the Courthouse and look at the scenic beauty of that Avenue.
he said if we do not consider all alternatives in terms of placing our water pipes, 19th Street will look
ike that as will 22nd Street. She said we don't need more billboards and cement; we need to preserve all
he things we enjoy here as citizens of this community. She said the scenic beauty this community holds has
een touted all over the nation, it is cited in almanacs, roadside manuals, tourists guides - -we can't let
his scenic beauty be tampered.
She said issues have been raised about setting a precedent. She said she hopes her neighborhood
oes set a precedent. She said we have a responsibility that goes outside their property lines to the far
eaches of the entire community to protect the appearance of the community. She said she knows her area
sn't the only historic area in the town, but she feels the vegetation all over the town is important; it
nhances the property values and has many benefits to the homeowners economically in terms of heating and
ooling costs, etc. She said Mr. Gene Pipes, City Manager, shared with them yesterday that this particular
rea had been reappraised and the appraisals have been raised and it is due in fact to the trees. She said
e even stated that a treeless lot that is adjacent to a treed lot in her neighborhood was appraised at more
han a treeless lot in other areas of the community. She said they are obviously aware of the economic
alue. She said there is a precedent in the city for going into the street with water lines. She said
,500 feet of water lines were laid on University Avenue. She said Mr. Pipes gave her this information, so
he has been assured of its veracity. She said she does not feel this constitutes total commitment on the
r types of soil as opposed to using stabilized cement sand. She said they want the city to make every
t it can to preserve these trees. She said she is pleased that individually many of the council people
shared with her their concerns. She said even the Mayor has talked about her love of trees. However,
ustin's tree policy or the City of Cincinnati's tree policy, and others. She said if the city does not
ave its own resources, she will be willing to provide it with access to those tree policies. She said this
s a critical issue as what we do today, we can't look at just in terms of economics and dollar expenditure
ight now; we've got to took at it long term - -what type of economic loss it could bring to the community in
erms of lost tourism, decreased property values, etc. She said it puzzles her why we can be so nonchalant
bout the entry way into Sam Houston State University in terms of the trees. She said she is also surprised
hat we would not make every effort to save every single tree in the area that is used for the East Texas
olk Festival. She said she can't see everyone come out and being out there without our trees as it is just
part of our heritage and a part of our community.
She also pointed out to the Council that a few years back there was a street to be widened and a
ty employee who lived on that street and did not want the street widened; she wanted her trees protected.
e circulated a petition in her neighborhood and the city approved not widening the street as a response to
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MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989
BOOK °Pu
371
saving the trees, Ms. Delaney noted. She said she thinks there is a history of commitment here in terms a
protecting our trees and she would like to see that enacted upon in writing with a stringent tre
preservation policy. She said she is also concerned about the cost figures that have been shared with th
media and those in the community. She feels the figures need to be disclosed and understands Mrs. Monday i
prepared to do that tonight. She said Mr. Knotts made some comments at the meeting last night (picnic a
the Gazebo) concerning some engineering considerations on which she checked with a civil engineer. She sai
the civil engineer said the information Mr. Knotts provided last night is very dated and did not represer
current state -of- the -art of practice. She said her source felt if the city installed a new water line wit
current materials that it would have very few breaks and it would probably have a lifetime of at least 3
years before it saw any type of substantial repairs occurring to them. She asked the Council to conside
everything before it finalizes the plans for the water route.
the proposed Pipeline is going to go across their yard. She said she understands it is the council's
position that everything is preliminary and that it has a procedure it follows where when the stakes go in
and the flags go in and there is a ten day letter sent, etc., but she feels that many of the people in the
neighborhood do not understand that the proposed pipeline is going to go down their street or will cross
their street. She said other concerns in the neighborhood deal with the fact that there are properties on
which the city does not have easements or rights -of -way. She said they are concerned about the measures the
city will take to gain access to those properties. She asked the city to be very prudent and cautious in
doing that. She also asked that the city consider moving the pipeline to the other side of the street if
there is very little or no vegetation in the right -of -way or the city easement. She said one other .
disparity touted in the neighborhood has to do with the individual negotiations with property owners. She
said some property owners have written agreements with the city whereby the city will resod their grass,
will replace trees of a certain value--there doesn't seem to be uniformity in those agreements and that
causes her concern. She said she has the feeling that if the citizen isn't aware of the value of their tree
or what they can ask the city for, that the city doesn't offer that information. She said to her this is
not city government at its best. She feels the city needs to communicate clearly, effectively, and equally
with all of the citizens and if it is going to bore under one person's sidewalk, then it should offer that
same opportunity to the neighbor. She said she does not want to see things happen where we pit neighbor
against neighbor because the city has shorn favoritism and that causes her concern. She asked that the City
Council consider studying the other cities' tree preservation policies and that they take it under
advisement for a period of 90 to 120 days to allow themselves adequate time to examine a number of them.
that it increase the stringency of Huntsville's tree preservation Policy and that it communicate clearly and
unilaterally with all of the citizens. rather than negotiating on a one to one basis.
Mayor Monday noted then this concludes the citizen input session. Councilmember Bell then asked if
he could ask a question. He said since we were going to discuss trees tonight, he is a little concerned
that we have not heard from all of the people that want to speak. Mayor Monday advised the city has a very
Lengthy agenda this evening and that we are going to take the opportunity during Council action to respond.
She said we are now going to move into our regular agenda. She said she appreciates the people who spoke
but at this time those are the only people who have signed up and the time is up. She said at this time we
will close that session and will move to the regular session. She then called the regular session open and
ask for the invocation.
FORMAL SESSION CONVENED
Mayor Monday called the formal session to order. Mayor Pro tem and Councilmember Howard presented
the invocation.
CONSIDER THE MINUTES
Councilmember Barrett made the motion to approve of the minutes of May 16. 1989 and Councilmember
Gaines seconded the motion. Alt were in favor and the motion Passed unanimously.
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 372
REORDERING OF AGENDA ITEMS
Mayor Monday suggested moving the City Manager's portion of the agenda to its regular slot on the
agenda so that a visitor on the agenda could make his presentation and then be able to leave while the
Council deliberated the remainder of the agenda. Councilmember Carter asked if a motion from the Council is
needed to change the agenda as posted. Mayor Monday asked if there is an objection to adjusting the order
of the agenda. Councilmember Carter said there is an objection as he would prefer to go ahead with the
agenda as posted, noting there are many Huntsville residents here also. There being no other comment, Mayor
Monday agreed to proceed with the agenda in the order as posted. She then asked the City Manager to present
his report, as scheduled.
CITY MANAGER'S REPORT - -Gene Pipes
Report to the City Council and public concerning the C.I.P. water main replacement project in the 19th
Street -south area
Mr. Pipes advised this discussion dates back to 1974 or 1975 when City Councilmembers representing
this particular ward made and have made repeated requests for solutions to the low pressure water problem in
that particular area, especially the residents at the top of the hill. Mr. Pipes said the city has
undertaken a considerable scope of work citywide, including some very detailed engineering studies to
provide the information necessary to make sound judgments by the city council on what possible remedies for
this particular problem could be effected. He said in reviewing the history of this situation, it was
learned that this same debate had gone on for many, many years and existed between the utilities director
and city engineer back in the 1940's because of the switch over from a low pressure to a high pressure water
system in some parts of town. He said several attempts have been made over the years to resolve this
problem by making various piping changes and valve changes in the water distribution network and each time
the city had a resounding experience with the breaking of the older pipes in the area most severely
impacted by the water pressure problem.
It was determined quite some time ago, he said, that in order to effectively correct the problem,
that a complete rebuild of the water distribution system in this particular area would be necessary. He
said the city's latest experience with a series of water main breaks occurred in the late 1970's when the
Avenue J tower behind Fire Station No. 2 on Avenue J was drained and cleaned for general maintenance work.
He said for a temporary arrangement, the water distribution system was switched over to the Palm
Street /Walnut Street water tower and the city commenced a long series of around- the -clock maintenance crew
efforts to keep up with the breaks in the water lines throughout this area. He said the work was completed
in several weeks time and this experience was considered proof - positive that a permanent switch to the high
pressure system would not be able to be effected without a replacement of the water piping system.
Subsequent to that, he said, we developed the Comprehensive Plan for the 1980's and the capital improvement
program which would accomplish many of the goals and objectives set out in that Comprehensive Plan. He said
the city began working on the outer loop system and the inner loop system and various interconnects between
the city's high and low pressure systems to solve the problems of water pressure at Spring Lake, to solve a
number of water discoloration problems, water supply and storage problems throughout the system. Finally,
he noted, the city, in the middle 19801s, made repairs to the water distribution system itself. He said in
conjunction with the street bond issue, the city determined it would be the most effective use of the
available money to begin a coordinated program of work in conjunction with the street paving program and
that the repairs to the water and sewer systems should be done before the paving is done so that we wouldn't
subsequently have to come back and tear up the new asphalt pavement to make the repairs at a later time.
He said it was also determined as a policy that the water lines, because they are pressured lines within the
city's street right -of -way, should, if at all possible, be moved out from under the pavement surface so that
when a water main broke, it would be more easily and quickly recognizable and not do as much damage in terms
of cost experienced to the street structure itself. He said the city began that project in 1984 with a bond
issue that was the first to be passed by the voters in Huntsville since 1964. He said Mayor Nash and his
successor, Mayor Monday, had undertaken a very ambitious program of work in conjunction with the city
council. He said the city began to build $2 million worth of street network rebuild and to make the
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MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P° 373
necessary repairs to the water and sewer system as to what went along with that project. He said a numbe
of improvements were made and the city connected a lot of dots on the map that were voids prior to tha
time.
Mr. Pipes said the city's efforts have been steadily proceeding from that day to this in th
direction of this particular neighborhood. He said the city realized this neighborhood needed to b
considered as an integrated part of the entire utility system of the City of Huntsville in order t
effectively address the problem as it was. He said the city has some extremely low static water pressure c
the top of the hill; 19th Street is in good shape as far as pounds of pressure, and where the average arour
the city is 50 -60 pounds of pressure, up one block, there is a dramatic 20 pound drop in pressure and as or
gets to the crest of the hill, it gets down into the extremely marginal area of water pressure tolerance.
Mr. Pipes said the State Health Department sets parameters for water distribution system pressures.
He said the static pressure recommended is 35 pounds. He said when we are starting out with 25 pounds or
Less, we are substantially below. Static pressure, he said, is when no one else is using the system, say at
3:00 a.m. when there is not a lot of demand on it. He said peak pressures dropped because of usage,
watering lawn in the evening or getting prepared to go to work in the morning- -there is a considerable',
difference between static pressure and peak pressure. Part of the concern dealing with this particular
problem is the adequacy of fire protection. He said these concerns are extremely emotional issues and are
something the city has recognized as a limitation in its ability to respond for many, many years. He said
the city has not emphasized this particular problem because of the sensationalism that is generally attached
to it. He said there are some very great pressure differentials that could potentially collapse the lines
when a five inch pumper attaches to a fire hydrant and demands greatly on the system. He said a vacuum
could be created in the distribution system to cause it to collapse. He said the city has an obvious
responsibility in that area.
It was pointed out at the Gazebo park last night that the City of Huntsville's policy has been
evolving for some time in regard to this type of project. He said before 1984, the city had not done a
substantial amount of distribution work. He said from 1984 to 1989, the city has obtained five years of
experience that is very valuable to the staff. He said the city's efforts have been to maintain the
aesthetic, quality of life considerations of the external environment and the human element needs of an
adequate water and sewer system. He said the city has acquired a considerable amount of sophistication. He
said the city has micro - television cameras that can be pulled through the sewer line that will tell the city
exactly, with a very high degree of specificity, where the breaks are so the city does not have to dig up
Long stretches of the street to repair sewer lines. He said the city can tell where roots in -grow the
sewer system, where pipes are disjointed, cracked or broken and need to be repaired by various means. He
said the City went through Sam Houston park, the Homestead of Sam Houston himself, last year without damage
to a single tree by a process called Insituform, which is an inverted sock type process that blows the
material into the line, inverts it in the line and then a hardening agent is added to virtually make a new
pipe within the old pipe and seals the cracks and leaks and speeds up or makes the efficiency of the flow
Line of the pipe much greater. He said the city also came down a portion of Avenue M with the same process.
He said on a limited basis, because of the expense, the city has done some other areas. He said the city
also worked last year on Avenue 0, 17th Street and has a considerable list of projects it has completed over
the last five years that were provided to The Huntsville item as part of the City News Notes for last
Sunday, which failed to be published. He advised this information will be published as soon as possible and
should give considerable comfort to the questions that have been raised. He said it is very easy to find
areas in town where-the city has already built lines in very close proximity to trees. He said the city
passed right by City Hall last summer, crossed over the headwall on Town Creek Memorial Park on the other
side. He said this was in very close proximity to oak and pecan trees and this was done with a great deal
of success and this is a considerable point of pride to the city. He said the city did the same thing four
years ago on 10th Street across from the Post Office and Item. He said the city proceeded in an easterly
direction up to Avenue N and then to Avenue M with trees on either side. He said very close to the Barrett
Professional Building, a substantial pecan tree was not harmed. He said the city has a great deal of
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 374
perience on staff, in dealing with trees and vegetation and natural amenities of our community, and the
ty is very sensitive to it.
Mr. Pipes said this does not state in any way that the city has all the answers or the total
ertise necessary to manage the projects to everyone's satisfaction. He said the city is continually
hering information. Mr. Pipes said he will be recommending to the City Council tonight that the city
Mr. Pipes said the city operates in an historical structure. Many of the city's streets are narrow
and are already impacted and occupied by water lines that must stay in service while the new water lines are
put in or the citizens would be out of water for extended periods of time. He said it is not commonly
understood that this is a rather difficult situation. He said maintaining water service while we are
putting in new water line is no easy trick. He said in that street right -of -way there is always sewer
Lines and those lines will be repaired.
Besides water and sewer lines, Mr. Pipes said there are gas lines, storm drains, overhead power
lines supported on poles that are rooted, themselves planted in the right -of -way; telecable and telephone.
He said there is a point that needs to be made here about the other utilities. First of all, he said, by
franchise agreement, all of the utilities share the available right-of -way. He said most of the rights -of-
way are 50 feet and most of the streets are approximately 30 feet; which leaves ten feet either side for the
use of all of the utilities as well as the street itself. He said most of the sewer lines are down the
street, approximately down the middle, although there is a considerable meander, the result of history or
where it was easiest to be put is where it is. In addition to that, he said by franchise agreements, the
power company, the telephone company, the gas company and the telecable company have the right to put their
Lines some place in that right -of -way. He said that franchise agreement gives them the authority, without a
great deal of discretion, to put the lines where it is cheapest and easiest for them. He said if the city
effects a policy concerning the city's water and sewer lines that is totally within the street, it almost
automatically mandates that the other utilities, without a lot of notice and concern about it, take whatever
steps necessary to install their lines where they will best function. He said many of the citizens that
Live on Avenue 0 last year thought the city had begun its program when the telephone company began laying
cable up the west side right -of -way. In fact, they had simply submitted a set of plans to the city engineer
that had to be approved by virtue of the franchise agreement without any discretion because the right -of -way
is provided under the city's ordinances and agreements for that purpose, he said. He said the telephone
company installed two separate cable installations that took up a substantial amount of space on that one
side of the street, so that when the city came back with subsequent water lines, it had to fit its 6 inch
water project in the remaining space, which was extremely difficult. He said in addition to that, the city
found in that project and the subsequent street work that the gas company's lines were extremely shallow and
that the changes necessary to get the flow line of the gutters to function properly and to be picked up by
the inlet boxes caused the relocation of the gas lines. He said that is now four separate excavation
projects in that right -of -way before the city ever got to the street work. He said when all this was done,
the city had to go back and dig it up again because the original water tine had to remain in service until
new service connections were provided to each house; five excavations before the street work could begin.
Mr. Pipes, City Manager, advised: "One of the most sensitive questions that had been brought up was
the city's insensitivity to a bird sanctuary on the corner of 17th and Avenue 0. A claim was filed by the
owner of that property for value ranging from $1,300 to $16,000 on damage to the trees and vegetation in
that habitat. We submitted that claim as is our policy and practice to our insurance agent, which is an
independent adjuster, who did a completely independent review of the items and determined there had been no
damage and denied the claim. A figure of some $3,000 has been recently quoted on that, but some of the
trees that were claimed as damaged were small diameter trees that were in the street right -of -way belonging
to the city and that, of course, is not a liability damage that enures to the benefit of the abutting
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MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 375
property owner. That particular project was a water line that went down 17th Street where the sidewalk i
today where a very badly broken up sidewalk existed at this time last year and is in very close proximity t
another group of very nice trees. None show any worse the wear today."
Mr. Pipes said in city public administration work, there is no way that a public official can tell
you with an absolute certainty that there will be no damage to trees X, Y or Z; that is a matter of
accountability and credibility and we are simply not going to do that. He said our policy on acquiring
necessary working easements is to deal with the individual property owner as forthrightly and straight
forward as we possibly can. He said the city provides the information on how the city is going to work, how
tong it is going to work, what the expectations are at the conclusion of the work, and do the best it can to
comply with that assurance. He said that grant of that working or permanent easement or whatever the
condition is that it discusses, is conditioned upon the signature and approval of the individual property
owners. He said the reason the city cannot deal en masse with these types of documents is that there are
obvious nuances, individual problems, in areas where the city has to deal on an individual basis. He said
one that is particularly interesting in the last several weeks was the grant of an easement by an individual
on 22nd Street who didn't have trees in the right -of -way, but required that the city take down three pine
trees on the lot that she didn't want in consideration for that easement. That was a personal decision- -the
city did not promote it and it did not offer it, but that was the condition under which the easement was
granted. He said the city had to have the space to work, therefore, it has to accept those conditions.
That sort of thing is extremely unusual, he said, and it is a matter of personal privilege of that property
owner. He said that individual owns that property, owns those trees and makes that decision individually.
He said the city does not intend or offer or encourage that sort of thing, but that is a statement of fact.
Mr. Pipes said since Monday of last week, the Memorial Day holiday, Mr. Pipes said the city staff
and city council have worked very diligently to provide information to respond to the questions that have
arisen out of the proposed 19th Street water line project. He said the city has answered as many questions
as have been offered but it has acknowledged and been concerned that there is no way to keep up with the
questions as fast as they were being generated and circulated. He said the city has relied on the public
media for a number of years to be of assistance in responding to public concerns. He said the city can deal
with individuals directly, but it is very difficult to make contact with every individual. He said the
residents are, in fact, limited to the public media. He said the city began information distribution about
this particular project in newspaper articles and the minutes of this Council in 1987 in earnest. One
particular article dated September 2, followed an article on the previous day, September 1, he noted, that
quotes Mr. Russell and Councilmember Carter about concerns on this particular project virtually two years
ago. He said the article on the 2nd details to some extent the type of project, the purpose and the process',
the city would be going through. Subsequent meeting minutes, newspaper articles, etc., which he would be
glad to leave for anyone's inspection, indicate the efforts the city has made over the years, including City
Hall News Notes written by Mrs. DeShaw and other members of the city staff, to get the information out as
best as possible. He said there is simply no way, doing the routine business of the city on a daily basis
to visit on the extended personal basis with everyone that resides. Demographic data indicate from the 1980
census that there are approximately 1,104 people in residence in this area, he said, so it is a virtual
impossibility except through the mass media efforts, to keep everyone informed.
In addition to that, he said, Councilmembers themselves have brought numerous concerns and questions
and they are, as the elected representatives of this community, in constant contact with the staff and at
Least every Tuesday night, have the opportunity to afford themselves and the public they represent any
questions and the staff is obligated, duty bound to respond openly and as completely as possible. He said
this staff has been responsive throughout the entire period of this capital construction program and long
before and will be long afterwards. In addition to that, they have asked the staff to develop certain
policies. He said the staff recommended on March 14 a policy regarding the location of the water lines and
their relationship to the trees in the right -of -way. He said the Council discussed it in a very detailed
fashion, made certain recommendations, and it was brought back subsequently and the Council concurred in
that policy which provided that the city would do the best possible job to lay the route for any proposed
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P° 376
star lines in the least encumbered areas where there would be the fewest trees, the least expense, the
east damage and the least impact and that this would be the staff's responsibility. Then the city would go
ut and stake those lines on the ground through the neighborhoods, through the streets so they would be very
isible to everyone concerned. He said to this date the city has staked two lines along 22nd Street and one
n 19th Street and that is all that has been preliminarily staked because that is all the staff has had time
o do since the adoption of that policy. He said the city then gives notice to the property owner that the
takes in their yard indicate the location and route of the line and encourage them to contact the staff and
sk any and sit questions they have as individuals about that line.
He said this past week, the process broke down because by the time the line got staked, the staff
pent their entire time along with many hours donated by councilmembers, discussing the problems on an
ndividual basis and answering questions. He said there have been only a limited number of notices about
he 19th Street line. That two week period that follows then, has just started, he said, and the city sent
otices to those on the far west end of 19th Street because the park and the school district are large
racts in that two block area. He said the city sent notices to the private property owner and the tenant
nd it is awaiting the ten day lapse period before it starts. He said this is done in a qualified way
ecause dependent upon what the Council's decision is on this project, the city is not going to start a
star line into the area until a commitment is made that this is in the best interest of the overall
ommunity and that this is what the Council wants to do. He said the policymakers sit on his left and
ight; the staff doesn't make policy, it carries out policy and it is very sensitive to that.
Mr. Pipes said the school district's concern for the Gibbs Elementary School area, is the reason the
city chose to flip -flop from 22nd Street over to 19th Street because the city gave the school district, in
consideration of the easement they granted to the city, the guarantee the city would be absolutely through
and out of the way before school started in September on that portion of the project. He said the concerns
of those children that walk back and forth to the school up 19th Street would be a logical secondary
concern, but if there is a problem in availing ourselves of the necessary expertise to deal with the tree
problems, of which there are none in conflict on the first two blocks, then the city would simply nave to
22nd Street or some other portion of the project. He said he cannot provide a precise schedule of when the
city will be where because construction is not a precise science; in fact, it is very imprecise- - rain,
delays, equipment problems, unexpected difficulties all contribute to a very difficult time in planning and
scheduling. However, he said, the city's crews have been extremely responsive and good in its past three to
four years in dealing with the neighbors in the neighborhoods and their concerns. He said the city has a
very good record in that regard in other neighborhoods and if anyone has doubts about it, they should avail
themselves to the lists when the articles of city news comes out in The Huntsville Item and give some of
those neighbors there a call and ask them how they were treated. He said the city has that much confidence
in that particular situation.
Mr. Pipes said one other question that has come up consistently is the veracity of the calculations
on additional costs of the water in being in the street versus outside the street in the right -of -way. He
said all of those costs are based on the city's past experience on these water line projects over the last
four years. In fact, he said, the precise example that is probably most applicable is the 16th Street to
10th Street University Avenue water line that was built last year, part behind the curb under the sidewalk
and part in the street through the square where there was no place to work adjacent to the buildings that
are on the lot line. He said those costs are remarkably close by absolute calculation to the projected
costs that Mr. Glenn Isbell, City Engineer, gave in various news accounts a couple of weeks ago. He said he
has a limited number of memorandums and then passed them out to those interested. The memorandum provided
a summary of the costs of five projects based on best kept records and best effort to be totally accountable
for the costs of these projects. He said they very clearly point out the difference in cost in the areas
that one can propose to route a line. Mayor Monday requested that Mr. Clyde Lavelle receive a copy of this
information as he has asked specifically for it.
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Mr. Pipes said because of the concerns voiced last week, several councilmembers asked him to try to
identify and locate specific expertise to assist the city, city council and city staff in the mitigation of
the possible damage for the proposed water line and subsequent water lines of the city. He said he had a
very good and productive interview with a proposed consultant last Friday for a few hours and he has had
only a telephone conversation interview with the other consultant. He said he is very comfortable with
either of these individuals from the standpoint that the gentleman with whom he has only spoken over the
phone is in Albuquerque at the present time and will not be back until next week, but he is recommended
highly by the Texas Agricultural Extension Service who was contacted earlier in the process to see if they
would be able to provide such information and study. While the Extension Service would be happy to
participate and assist in this, he said, it just could not be done in as timely a fashion because of the
scope of the project and the concern as to how much time it could spend on it as a state agency. He said
these two firms both will work for a fixed hourly fee of 560.00 per hour; one estimates the hours necessary
to properly supervise, advise and assist the city could amount to as much as 521,000 on this project. He
said the other gentleman has not had an opportunity to look at the scope of the project enough to estimate
the time requirement. He said their fees are exactly the same and their credentials are equally
impressive. He said he has no problem with either of their service if the Council would care to authorize
the City Manager to enter into a professional services agreement with either of the firms and leave that to
his discretion pending his interviewing of the consultants, he will be happy to do that. He said he
appreciates any expertise the council will afford the staff in areas that are as sensitive and technical as
is the arborist profession. He said this is the report he has for the Council and the public tonight based
on this information. He said he can provide the Council with a complete analysis of the professional
services by next Tuesday night.
Mayor Monday asked Mr. Pipes to detail exactly what the consultant would be asked to do. Mr. Pipes
said there would be a selection of the trees that would be preserved through a tree by tree evaluation- -the
city will rely heavily upon the inventory conducted by Mr. Bill Carroll and provided to the city last week- -
develop species, condition and location and future liability concerning each tree that is in conflict with
the proposed water line; develop a construction strategy; plan for each tree using innovative but cost
effective techniques that will specify the method and procedure to be used during construction; provide
field supervision of the construction crews during the actual construction phase so that the advice will be
followed to the best degree possible; provide periodic maintenance inspection, provide advice on tree
treatment; and assist the Council in developing further modifications to the tree preservation policy, if
that is the Council's desire. Mayor Monday thanked Mr. Pipes for bringing such fine credentials to the
Council. She asked the Council for their consideration.
Councilmember Green calculated two months of full time work for the $21,000 and questioned if that
much time will be needed. Mr. Pipes said the staff estimates this project will last for the next 18 months
as it is laying four and one -half miles of pipe; two 12 inch lines on 19th Street and 22nd and then a
series, a grid, of eight inch and two inch on alternate streets, starting with Avenues L 1/2 and N and N 112
and 0, etc. so that the alternate streets will provide fire protection on the 8 inch line and the least
possible intrusion by the trenching method on the streets that have the two inch line. He said that project
would last over a two year period and the intent of the proposal is that the consultant be available to the
city on an arranged basis to deal with the individual trees and to stay here while the city works around
that particular tree. Councilmember Green said if the tree inventory has already been done, we are still
talking about at least 320 hours as he calculates $60.00 an hour and that is two full months of work. He
wondered if there are that many trees that would be adversely affected to justify $20,000 worth of expense.
Mr. Pipes said some of this comes from the published concerns about 294 trees being impacted. He said the
definition of impact is a matter of distance and the type of disturbance in that distance -- whether we are
trenching or digging with a backhoe, boring, etc.; it is a degree situation. He said the concern was that
they would underestimate the time necessary to advise on 294 trees versus the 38 that are within 5 feet of
the curb line, which would have the most direct impact; for instance the two oak trees on 19th Street, which
have a very direct impact. He said Mr. Carroll's report indicates some 27 -28 other trees that would be
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 378
impacted, therefore, it is a very vague question as to how much time advice to the city construction crews
would be necessary to do the best job possible and limit the damage. He said the key element is the hourly
rate and the Council can control the cost by setting the upper end limit as "cost- not -to-exceed."
Councilmember Green said he does not object to the hourly rate, but does object to the number of hours. Mr.
Pipes said at that point, "cost not to exceed" caps the hours and the staff can certainly use that judgment,
based on what Mr. Carroll's report indicates as the highest probability of concern and impact- -the trees
within 5 feet and the trees within 10 feet, and use the arborist in a more limited fashion than the initial
scope of the work. He said he was certain the consultant would be happy to work under those conditions. He
said the problem the staff has is in defining the scope of the work. Councilmember Green suggested perhaps
the staff needs to more narrowly define the scope of the work, but he didn't know enough about trees to make
a recommendation, but 320 hours seemed unreasonable as a casual observer. He said he can't imagine the
consultant not being able to plan the entire project and supervise the trees that would be most effected in
a much shorter time frame than that. Mr. Pipes said he wilt bring this matter back for consideration next
week.
Councilmember Bell felt hiring an arborist is an excellent idea and a way to deal with some of the
problems expressed. He said he is uncomfortable in voting upon this tonight simply because the staff does
not have a whole range of people to choose from and we are not even sure of the scope of the work. He
recommended tabling this for one week. Mayor Monday asked for a motion to table. Councilmember Bell made
the motion to table the hiring of a consultant arborist until next week and Councilmember Howard seconded
the motion. Mayor Monday asked the council for their thoughts on the scope of the project so that Mr. Pipes
will have the benefit of their thinking as he makes further contact with the proposed consultants.
Discussion: Councilmember Bell expressed his strong support for the notion to hire the consultant and
wanted the staff to pursue it. Councilmember Knotts said his concern is to what degree will the city use
the decisions of the consultant and will the consultant's decision be final or will the final decision still
be that of the City Council concerning the trees in question. He was concerned about adding another level
of bureaucracy, but if it will mitigate the process, he would be for it. He said he would want certainty
that the consultant's recommendation will be carried out and that the city will not have to hire another man
to mediate between two or three consultants.
Councilmember Carter advised he listened to a long dissertation about the history of this conflict
and project. He said there has been a great deal of discussion as to who is responsible for the conflict
and confrontation that has taken place in the neighborhood of Sam Houston's Woodland Home. He said this is
not a new issue and there are several things that need to be remembered in context of what has been said
tonight. He said the same discussion took place almost a year ago in a work session following Gary Belt's
experiences at Spring Lake. He said at that time Gary Bell had a compromise policy, a sensitive approach,
based on his experiences at Spring Lake, to handle the Woodlands Neighborhood and every other neighborhood
in town. He said that policy was voted down and they were told, in no uncertain terms, that City
Councilmembers could not assist residents in neighborhoods in attempts to protect their trees.
Councilmember Carter said in spite of Gary Bell's success, which is now being held up as a model of
sensitivity on the part of the city in Spring Lake, he vociferously protested at that time the policy that
cut off the council from listening to residents on the tree issue. Over the ensuing months, he said, the
issue of trees and protection of trees, the value of trees, individually and globally, is raised again and
again. Some members of this council that are now finding such great sensitivity to trees, time and again,
ignored, ridiculed, joked about and laughed at those expressions of concern. For the most part, he said, he
reacted in a friendly fashion and attempted to joke back. Up until two weeks ago, he was not sure what
direction to take on the issue of trees, he said. Sitting at the Council meeting that night, he said, it
occurred to him that perhaps bringing in an expert, a professional, someone with a real knowledge of trees
and forestry and who could combine a hard nose economic approach to the issues, with sensitivity to trees,
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MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 379
might help. And so, without even having consulted Bill Carroll ahead of time, and somewhat on the spur of
the moment, he requested that he be placed on the agenda to address City Council. He said the Council
indulged his request and Bill appeared. After Bill's presentation, the City Manager presented a history of
the city's policy and execution of policy concerning trees. He said we are told about the green space
ordinance, the landscape ordinance, the acquisition of parks, the planting of crepe myrtles and trees, the
statement on environmental sensitivity that accompanies every building permit, and the master plan. All of
these are good things, he said. The City Council, the Mayor and the City Manager all deserve praise for
these policies and they are good policies, he noted. But a policy statement and an assertion of values is
no better than the actions that follow it, he stated. Policy is ultimately what is done, not what is said
or written, he noted.
The Council was also told about a sycamore tree on 10th Street that had been cut down by the city,
and while he did not observe the tree first hand, Councilmember Carter noted, he listened to the City
Manager and his memory is that the City Manager said everything went well; the owner was happy, the tenants
were happy, and the tree was a threat to the structure, etc. Subsequently, he said, he talked to the owner
who told him she was not pleased, that she did not want the tree removed and that the tenants were
dissatisfied. He said he has now also seen photographs of the tree and he must tell the Council he does not
understand the rationale behind the removal of that tree. Also on that evening, he said, he questioned the
City Manager about the policy on trees and utilities. Ultimately, the City Manager answered that if there
was a conflict between a tree and a utility line, that the utility would take precedence. He said several
weeks later, the City Manager was quoted in the newspaper as saying that two sweet gums on the corner of
19th Street and Avenue N were in the way of capital improvement projects. At this point, he said, he has
no doubt that had this issue not come to the public's attention, that the city would have cut those two
sweet gum trees, that the city would have cut the two trees in front of the Haley's house, that the city
would have cut a large post oak tree across from Paul Ruffin's house, and unfortunately, he has no direct
personal knowledge of possible loss of trees because he has tried to leave the debate as much as possible to
Bill Carroll, the City Engineer, and the property owners. He said he has been criticized for listening to
the critics of the city and accused of instigating public pressure. He said he has not heard it, but he may
have been accused of misleading the public. He said he is guilty of listening to critics of the city as
well as those that are satisfied with the city and to those who are neutral. He said he will continue to
Listen to anyone who calls him. He said he is not employed by members of the City Council or by the City
Staff or by George Russell - -he is employed by those people who are out there, each and every one of them.
Sometimes they don't like him. Some of them vote against him. Some of them criticize him. But, right or
wrong, he said, they are the ones to whom he has to answer. He said sometimes he will displease them in
the future and some time they will disagree, but they are the ones to whom to pay attention. He said he
does not know if he is guilty of instigating public pressure or not - -he hopes that he is. He said he would
Like to believe that he has had some role to play in getting all these people involved and supervising their
city government. He said he hopes he can continue to instigate if this is the kind of participation that is
the result.
Councilmember Carter said the Council caught hell on annexation and he was on the wrong end, at odds
with those who would have been annexed. He said he would have voted against them on that issue and then the
people as a whole could have judged the results. He said he supposes he was one of the instigators then,
but on the opposite side of the issue. He said he does not believe that he is guilty of misleading and he
has not heard much misleading on the part of other people from the neighborhood or of sensationalizing the
issue. He said he has said noting to anyone that he does not believe to be the truth. He said it has been
difficult to discuss facts of substance on this issue because the city staff has hardly given any facts or
substance with which to deal. He said the purpose of calling Bill Carroll in on this was to move the issue
in the direction of facts and substance and away from personalities. He said the reason he goes though this
lengthy statement is, in fact, to try to clear the air and to remove his personality from the issue
itself - -and it is an issue. He said it is not fabricated - -it has been an issue for some time, but it is not
an issue where we needed to have taken an adversarial position; it is an issue where some compromise and
negotiation was and is possible. But, he said, whether the City Manager or the other members of the City
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 380
ncil or the city staff like it or not, it is his belief that had the residents of this neighborhood not
ken up, they were at jeopardy of losing a substantial element of their quality of life and their property
ues.
Councitmember Carter then asked the following questions and was pleased to learn the staff is
igated to answer these.
Do other cities place utility lines, including water lines, in the streets? Mr. Pipes said some
do.
Does the City of Huntsville have water lines in new construction in the streets? Mr. Pipes said in
some places. Councilmember Carter asked how much, how many, what footage? Mr. Pipes said he is
welcome to look at the utility maps available in the engineering department at any time.
Of the 165 breaks that occurred last year in water lines, how many were in pipes that were in the
streets? Mr. Pipes said we will have to extract that information. Councilmember Carter said he
would like written documentation on all of these. Mr. Pipes said he will be happy to let him read
the daily reports. Councilmember Carter asked that the information be summarized in some fashion on
these breaks. Mr. Pipes said this can be done if this is what he would like.
What is the cost for repairing those lines in the streets? Mr. Pipes noted this will be provided.
If some additional fraction of the water lines in the Woodlands Neighborhood goes in the streets,
based on the actual additional length of pipe put in the streets and the percentage derived from
past risk history experience with water lines in the street, what is the actual additional dollar
risk of having to dig up a street and repair a water tine, taking into account that these are new
lines? Mr. Pipes said if he is asking for an actual cost on a hypothetical situation, that will be
very difficult to answer. Councilmember Carter asked if we know how many additional feet to go
around trees in the streets versus the percentage of pipe breakage we've had in the past, we can
have an estimate at least? Mr. Pipes said they certainly can do that.
What is the actual additional cost of trenching in the street as opposed to trenching in an
easement? Mr. Pipes said he imagines the trenching runs the same in any place. Councilmember
Carter asked what about sidewalks that might overrun water lines in easements- -would that make the
difference on cost? Mr. Pipes said there are some additional costs in replacing sidewalks.
If the pipe breaks under a sidewalk, what is the comparative cost? Mr. Pipes said it is much less
to dig up 2 -3 inches of concrete versus base, asphalt course and all sorts of other attendant costs
in the street. Councilmember Carter said he would like to see figures of digging up and replacing
a sidewalk as opposed to trenching in the street.
What is the attitude of the City toward improvements that residents might have made in rights -of-
way or in easements? Mr. Pipes said the attitude of the city is a matter of Council concurrence
with policy. At the present time, it is the policy adopted by this Council that all rights-of-way
in new construction be cleared and maintained. He said the city has a number of improvements in
rights -of -way all across the city that have been treated as a grandfather situation and to his
knowledge the Council has not established a prohibition policy for such improvements, although they
certainly do pose a considerable expense at the time of a project such as this.
Will the city replace improvements in easements or rights-of -way? Mr. Pipes said at the present
time, that is not the city's policy.
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING Of JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P"
381
10. Do you calculate the cost of those replacements by the homeowner in the cost OT the trencning the
city does when it talks about the cost of the pipe in the street versus the pipe in the easement?
Mr. Pipes said the city does not because it does not bear those expenses. Councilmember Carter
asked if this is not a cost? Mr. Pipes said if it were put back like it is, he supposed it would
be. Councilmember Carter asked if this is not a form of double taxation? Mr. Pipes said that would
be a judgment on his part.
11. What was amount of the surplus in the water fund last year? Mr. Pipes said $500,000.
12. What is the amount of the surplus in the water fund this year? Mr. Pipes said something less than
that; it is approximately equivalent to what the city's commitment is to the capital street program;
it was basically maintained for the last three years. Councilmember Carter asked if we used the
surplus last year. Mr. Pipes said it was committed, but he did not know that we spent every dollar
because the city has not done Avenue M.
13. Do we have adequate easements and rights -of -ways on all lots on streets in the Woodlands
Neiahborhood (22nd Street)? Mr. Pipes said on 22nd Street the city has some easements but are
absent a few. Councilmember Carter asked about the property of Mr. and Mrs. Moore on 22nd Street.
Mr. Pipes said he did not know any individual's specific information. Councilmember Carter asked if
there is a staff member that can answer. Mr. Glenn Isbell, City Engineer, said he can find out for
him.
14. Did the city attempt to obtain a warranty deed rather than a temporary working easement from Mr. and
Mrs. Moore? Mr. Pipes said not to his knowledge. Councilmember Carteh asked if he shows him a copy
of a document entitled "Warranty Deed," would that surprise him. Mr. Isbell said it would surprise
him and Mr. Pipes said it would also surprise him. Councilmember Carter said he has one and Mrs.
Elizabeth Delaney spoke from the back of the room to say she has a copy in her car if the Council
would like for her to get it. Mr. Pipes said he would be happy to receive it. Councilmember Carter
asked if that is the normal practice. Mr. Pipes said it certainly is not without the knowledge of
the City Engineer and the City Manager, but that does not mean someone cannot make a mistake; but
that would be a human nature problem. Mr. Isbell said utility forms are done by the City Attorney
and they are essentially a standard form and one fills in the description type when the engineering
is done. Councilmember Carter said he has seen three different types of forms used for obtaining
easements on 22nd Street. Mr. Pipes said there are working easements, permanent easements and
right-of-way easements. Councilmember Carter said then there is not a standard form. Mr. Pipes
said there is for each of those types- -three separate legal instruments. Councilmember Carter said
a letter to an individual with specific statements in it is a standard and uniform form? Mr. Pipes
said if it is correspondence with the City Attorney. Mr. Isbell said if it is a temporary working
easement, it is just a temporary thing where the city has agreement to go on the property to
construct and at the time the city is through, then the easement is null and void. Councilmember
Carter said we can work on this question.
15. On the line as it is laid out on the around in the neighborhood, what are the blue stakes driven
flush with the around? Mr. Pipes said they designate the "hub." Councilmember Carter asked what
is a hub. Mr. Isbell said probably the center line of the water line and this is a reference for
the construction crews. Councilmember Carter noted then the stake standing up with a blue flag on
it is simply a marker for the flush mark. He asked then how we mark property lines. Mr. Isbell
said property lines are marked with iron rods or whatever is normally there when we come through.
Mr. Pipes said they are in the deed.
16. Is there any place where we are placina the center line of the water line on the property line?
Mr. Isbell said not to his knowledge.
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 382
17. Where does the $300,000 figure come from and is it simply the additional costs for all lines in that
neighborhood in the streets? Mr. Pipes said that is an estimated figure, as fallible as that
is, based on 4 1/2 miles of pipe of various size at the construction cost of $680,000 and the
additional cost, based on the city's experience on University Avenue and other projects, which
clearly document the difference in cost. Councilmember Carter said then it is for the entire 4 1/2
miles. Mr. Pipes said that is correct. Councilmember Carter said then we don't have any actual
feet that may be moved to the street to preserve trees. Mr. Pipes said the city has no way of
estimating that at this time. Councilmember Carter said a resident after the meeting last night
asked him on the basis of some of the discussion about joints and crisscrossing, etc., that it
seemed to that person that straight tines in streets without crisscrossing creating joints, if there
is a problem with pressure on joints, would have been better and probably would have reduced the
Length of the line itself and probably would have saved money.
18. Councilmember Carter said we talked a moment ago about laying lines in sensitive ways- -what about FM
247 - -why did the line run directly against the trees on FM 247? Mr. Pipes said: "For a portion
of the easement, which was granted by the property owner, paralleled the fence line where we
deviated from that, at the request and the convenience of the property owner, we went interior to
the property in an attempt to save a stand of trees. We did not offer or warranty any assurance
that the trees would survive the construction effort because they were extremely old, mature pines
that are extremely sensitive by Mr. Carroll's acknowledgement, and because of the extreme drought
conditions last summer, or whatever other causative agent, the trees did not survive. They have
been cut and removed as agreed after it was determined they were dead." Councilmember Carter asked
Mr. Pipes if he walked the line after the line was laid? Mr. Pipes said he personally did not.
Councilmember Carter said he would have seen roots of those trees still sticking up out of the
ground and would have seen the line laid almost directly against those trees. He said those trees
really had no chance to survive. Mr. Pipes said the city had a 15 foot right- of-way and was on the
far extreme outside of that right -of -way and they did the best they could given the conditions under
which they were allowed to work.
19. When will the Woodlands Project begin? Mr. Pipes said it depends upon the Council's
determination.
20. When will the final plans be created? Councilmember Carter noted Mr. Pipes said earlier that
detailed engineering studies had been going on since 1975. Mr. Pipes said he was referring to data
gathering. Councilmember Carter said that is quite a long time and we still don't have final
plans- -when will we have some final plans? Mr. Pipes said we have one set of final plans on 22nd
Street pending the receipt of the necessary easements and we have a portion designed for 19th Street
and are progressing with construction as we progress with design so as to maximize the utilization
of crews and efficiency and being able to employ the necessary flexibility to encounter problems
rather than designing four and one -half miles of line and discovering at mile number one that there
is a significant deviation that must be accommodated and messing up the plans for the rest of the
three and one -half miles.
Councilmember Carter noted in the City Manager's discussion earlier, he did something again that he
has heard said before; he tended to define the issue as either water or trees. He said he talked about fire
protection, low water, and he even brought in the school children. In every instance, he said, it did not
seem to him that we have to make the choice between protecting school children, fire protection or trees.
He said this is not the issue and there are alternatives to continuing this project without moving to
another area or shutting the project down or delaying it. He said we can go around some trees. He said he
appreciates Mr. Pipes answering these questions to the extent he did tonight.
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Councilmember Carter said he was accused a week or two ago of being insensitive to the other
neighborhoods in this town, especially on the creation of Avenue F and Martin Luther King Boulevard about
the removal of some trees. He said there are one or two comments he would like to make about that and one
is that no one from that neighborhood called him - -that is no excuse, he said as he should have been there.
If there were trees removed and someone was concerned, he said, so should all of us been there. As a member
of the Housing Authority, he said, he fought along with others to force the City to build a fence around
that project when that road was built. Finally, he said, if it is necessary to draw a line in the dirt and
it is the only way we can get attention on trees is to fight tooth and nail for every tree, then he is
ready. He said to this point we have attempted to be reasonable; to be wilting to negotiate and be
flexible. Mayor Monday asked who he is referring to as "we." Councilmember Carter said he meant "I" and
this neighborhood, and he wants to say "we" as in the "royal we," as the Mayor should understand. He said
the inflexibility and the absoluteness has been on the side of the present policies. He said we can work
together, but there must be mutual respect and therefore he apologized for the last comment. He said if
someone calls you or criticizes you and they are his friend, he said, that does not mean that he called you
that name or that he criticized you or that he agrees with them. He said if he raises an issue, it does not
mean that he has been prompted or manipulated by anyone. He said when we work together we must evolve
policy. He said the Council must assume significant responsibility for policy making. He said the City
Manager must be able to provide the Council with alternatives, not one -shot recommendations, take it or
Leave it, up or down. He said he appreciates the Council's time realizing he received more time than
perhaps they were witting to give him.
Councilmember Knotts said he has a few more comments and asked the Mayor if he could speak here or
wait until council action. Mayor Monday asked him to speak now. Councilmember Knotts referred to the water
Line on FM 247. He said the Council voted to acquire this right-of -way on private property to put that line
in so the Council knew what it was doing. He said he was the only one on the Council to vote against it.
He said he did not know what "dated material" Ms. Delaney referred to earlier, but perhaps it refers to the
deterioration of the lines. He said what he was talking about is deterioration through electrolysis of
existing lines - -the cast iron lines that are in the ground - -he said certainly electrolysis will not
deteriorate PVC; however in this town, we do have a tot of asbestos cement lines, AC John Mansfield Asbestos
Cement that was put in during the 1960's and 19701s. Mrs. Delaney asked, since Councilmember Knotts
addressed her, could she speak briefly. Mayor Monday agreed to let her speak.
Mrs. Delaney said she did not comment earlier about all the personal issues involved in this because
she wanted to keep the focus on tree preservation, but she did feel inclined to make a comment on public
record right now. She spoke to Mr. Pipes and said he just said the city tried to protect the trees on FM
247 and every effort was made. Mr. Pipes said: " . . . as provided by the property owner, we routed the
line on the far inside of that easement, granted by that individual, to leave as many trees as possible, and
that was our effort and that is what we did." Mrs. Delaney said she believes he said "to preserve the
trees." Mr. Pipes said to "preserve them standing in place." Mrs. Delaney asked Mrs. DeShaw, City
Secretary, to read that portion of the minutes back. Mrs. DeShaw advised this information is tape recorded
and can be provided to Mrs. Delaney tomorrow. Mrs. Delaney also shared with the Council that Mr. Isbell in
a telephone conversation with her told her that the city had no intention of preserving those trees. She
asked Mr. Isbell if he recalled that conversation. Mr. Isbell said the situation was that the line was
moved over to leave the trees standing. He said the city's normal policy, when it acquires rights -of -way,
is to come in and clear the right-of -way completely prior to construction beginning. Mrs. Delaney said she
would just like to use this illustration to show the council the source of some of the misunderstanding that
is rampant in the community. She said she asked Mr. Isbell where he got that information and he told her he
negotiated personally with that property owner. She said as a direct quote, Mr. Isbell said to her, and she
offered him the opportunity to debate with her on this issue, "that the city had no intention to saving
those trees." She asked if Mr. Isbell recalls that? She said she would like for Mr. Isbell to confirm what
she just said. Councilmember Bell told the Mayor he did not think it is appropriate for a citizen to quiz
staff members like that. Mayor Monday noted she does not feel it is appropriate either. Mrs. Delaney said
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 384
she was just trying to illustrate a point, noting it would be good if the public can have uniform
information.
Councilmember Knotts said the other item, as discussed with the City Manager, concerns backfitl on
water lines and probably in residential areas where the city backfills, instead of using a cement stabilized
sand or cement stabilized rock out from under the pavement, the city might use natural earth because the
cement is too alkaline and it is hard to get any kind of vegetation to grow on this material.
Councilmember Knotts also suggested looking into the possibility in some of these locations on the
streets, not knowing the location of the existing line, to try to couple the new line to the old line and
omit those areas that are sensitive areas; noting he is talking about 10 feet, 50 feet or 100 feet - -the
areas that have a lot of the trees, etc. He said then when we go to the high pressure, if those lines blow
out, then they will just have to be repaired and that will probably take the vegetation along with it.
Councilmember Knotts suggested another thing we might look into is that when the city installs lines
under embankments that the city use a trenching machine and not a backhoe, noting it would just be extremely
slow, but it could be done without moving the vegetation on it. The excavation of the ditch should be done
on an embankment that may not have as much vegetation as the other side of the street. He felt this could
help in some instances to give us an alternate.
Councilmember Knotts referred to the comment about looking down Sam Houston Avenue from 17th Street.
He said if we could also go out west from Safeway, people could see what the City's new Development Code has
brought in through the Landscape requirements. He noted the Wal-Mart has planted new trees over and above
what was required in the landscape ordinance. He said several buildings have been built along 11th Street
and Highway 30 under the new development code that requires landscaping, trees and green space. He noted
around the square there is no right -of -way as the pavement takes up the total right -of -way, so we have to go
into the street with the water lines.
Councilmember Knotts said he really feels the objective of most of the people with whom he spoke
last evening and those represented here tonight are the same as the Council's, however, the methods of
getting to the bottom line are different. He said the policy the Council adopted was to keep from
sensationalizing the issue and getting it so blown out of proportion as it seems to be now. He said the
Council wanted to handle this matter with a little more discretion and a little more diplomacy instead of
making it a big blown up issue. He felt had the Council been given the time and the opportunity to deal
with the affected property owners, this could be accomplished. He said he still feels it can be
accomplished. He said the policy the Council wanted to follow was to take out the least amount of trees.
that it had to. He said if Mr. Isbell does not know which side the line is going down, he does not know how
anyone else would know, questioning the concern for some 300 trees thought to be involved. He said if we
put the water line down both sides of the street, then perhaps 300 trees would be involved. Mr. Isbell said
the city staff has a preliminary location as the staff spent a day walking and trying to make that
determination. Councilmember Knotts said perhaps the city has been a little bit cavalier in its actions and
it may not have communicated individually with people like it should have. He said they assume some times
that the property owners are more knowledgeable about what is going on and assume they read the paper and
maybe they don't read the paper every day. He said the Council tries to get the coverage it can on the
project and maybe the Council is negligent in having a knowledgeable spokesperson on the job all the time
instead of people having to talk to the backhoe operator. He said maybe we need someone who is a little
more diplomatic on the job who is more knowledgeable, perhaps from the City Engineer's office.
Councilmember Knotts felt the goals of the city and the residents are the same, however.
Councilmember Bell said he has a great concern for trees as is evidenced by what went on at Spring
Lake. He said his approach is perhaps more simple - minded than others. He said what happened at Spring Lake
was a fairly successful experience for the city. He said the city probably started out more rigorous than
he would have preferred. There was a great deal of interchange between the citizenry and the city and this
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 385
is a very healthy process. He said he loves seeing the people at City Hall and he encourages that
interaction to continue. The bottom tine is what happened at Spring Lake was reasonably positive. By the
time the city crews completed their work, he said, what had been a fairly hostile citizenry out there hac
become a very accepting citizenry. He said one of the most hostile neighbors was, in the end, serving the
water and sewer crews ice tea and coke because the crews were demonstrating sensitivity and the care of that
neighbor's property that the neighbor hoped would occur. He said there have been problems in the past arK
those problems have been partly rectified. He said the city is not perfect as it is human and does make
mistakes and will probably continue to make mistakes. He said it is his judgment that all the citizens ca
do is to just trust the Council on this. He said the city will do the best job it can under th
circumstances. He said the city has became considerably more ecologically sensitive. He said it is his
judgment that as this project goes in, and most people are in agreement the project is necessary for a
variety of reasons, he guaranteed to them, both personally and as a member of the City Council, that there
will be maximum sensitivity to the trees and to the environment through which these lines will be laid. He
guaranteed to them as well that with the sentiment on the city council to go around some trees and he
guaranteed to them that boring is probably going to take place in a couple of instances. He said the fact
that the city is going to get an expert, an arborist to advise it, is a very good sign indeed. He said what
there has to be here is mutual trust. He said he called the Public Works Director of the City of Bryan
today and he said the most successful way to put in a water line is to establish a partnership with the
citizenry. He said this is what the city needs to do and we need to communicate better. He said
communication being two way will work to both of their advantage. He said as the Spring Lake residents
found, by the time the project is done, they will be more pleased than displeased.
Mayor Monday said she appreciates what Councilmember Carter has said. She said there is no doubt)
that he has taken a leadership role and this is something he believes in a great deal and the Council
appreciates that. She said she appreciates it and she appreciated last night's picnic and this evening's
attendance by concerned neighbors. She asked them to think about something. She said the city is getting
ready to do a project that is very, very important to them and it is also important to this town. She said
the city would not be allocating the dollars it is if it didn't think this neighborhood was significant and
an integral part of the improvements. She said they too think it is important and this is why they have it
in the plan. She said it is not only important to all of them, but it is important to the staff for the
hours they spent. She said it will never work if it is not a cooperative effort, not only on the part of
the public and the City, but on all this council, because unless they can work together and come to a
conclusion and to compromise on how this can be done on council, the issuance to the staff will never come.
She said unless the people out there in concern can also see that it is a cooperative and mutual agreement
that they reach a compromise position, it will never work.
She said the Council is not royalty, they are people, they have the same feelings as these
residents. She said they did not know when the stakes were going down and didn't see those stakes until
they hit the ground. She said they had no idea where they were going. She said the minute they hit the
ground, their phones started ringing too just as those of the residents. She said they are not the only
people who have friends over there and they also care about the people in that neighborhood. She said the
Council was on the ground as soon as those calls came. She said she knows the residents spent a lot of
hours on this, but so has the Council. She said every one of them has been there. She said they have
Looked again at the policy and feel the Council does need to make some changes. She said the Council then
started to work on that, but this is the first meeting that the council could officially discuss the matter.
She said alt nine of them will work on this. She said this council has a great deal of caring individuals,
but again, there has to be a compromise situation.
Mayor Monday said she is not going to tell them the City will save every tree up there because she
doesn't believe it will. She said she is going to tell them she does not think they are going to loose 300
trees. She said this staff is one of the finest staffs with which they are ever going to be dealing, that
care about people. She said Ms. Delaney will tell them that and a lot of people will tell them that their
individual dealings with these people have been very good. She said she will not say they have not had
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P° 386
ommunication problems because they have. She said she wilt personally took to see if the city can find a
etter way to communicate with this neighborhood. She said whatever is done in this neighborhood is going
o be done throughout this whole town. She said she is not going to discriminate and she is not going to
ell an historic area, such as the Emancipation Park area, that they are less or any more important. She
aid if she is going to communicate with the residents of the Woodlands Association, she is going to
ommunicate with the residents along Avenue F and if she is going to work to save the trees over there, they
re important all over town, and that is the benefit of what has happened. She told them personally there
ave been a lot of good things come out of this. She also said, however, if the residents are not willing
o step with the City along the way and work in a cooperative position, not with one or two, but with all,
hen all of us are going to miss a very fine opportunity in this community to make a major statement, to
ring a tree expert in here to work to save our trees, which are our heritage and our legacy. She said
ogether we can make that happen, but if it is not cooperative, it won't happen. That is the challenge to
he City and it is equally a challenge to the residents.
Mayor Monday said we have a motion on the table to table the hiring of the consultant until we have
ore information. She said in visiting with Mr. Pipes, the Council also needs to review the capital
mprovements program and that will be next Tuesday. She said the staff has spent hours on their plans and
hey need to move one place or another. She said next Tuesday evening it will be on the agenda for the
ouncil to make a decision as to what to do in this neighborhood. She said we can either go forward here or
e can go elsewhere in the city. She said they have that decision to make. In order to make that decision,
he said, the policy is going to have to be workable both for the city with the dollars it has and the
esidents and the concerns they have, meeting together for a policy they can both live with and go on. She
aid that is the challenge the Council, as the decision body, makes and that is the challenge to the
esidents, as the recipients. She said it is not going to work if there is no cooperation. She said it is
very big decision and is one that is weighing heavily on all of us. She said she does not have an answer,
ut this is the challenge. Councilmember Knotts complimented the Mayor on her statements, noting they are
,ery appropriate. Upon a vote on the motion, all were in favor and the motion passed unanimously.
Mayor Monday said the city has received a list of questions to answer concerning the city's policy
nd tree preservation and she will be responding to those in the Mayor's action later in the agenda. She
aid the Council is going to deal with the rest of the agenda at this time, but if the residents would like
o stay, she would be delighted to have them stay, but she will be doing that later in the program.
RECEIVE AUDIT -- TOURISM DIVISION
Mr. Pipes said the audit document indicates the fund balance as of December 31, 1988 at $38,194 less
the payment to the city of $12,920 that it received just after the first of the year. The attraction guide
expenditure of $13,371.45 was approved by the City Council. The payment by the Chamber to the City of
$7,508 for a total of $33,800.38 which is all present an accounted. He said there remains a balance of
$4,393.62, pending the Council's approval and acceptance of this audit. That check will be forthcoming
tomorrow in that amount which will totally account for all of the funds that have been used by the Chamber
by virtue of the Tourism Division activities over many years and been accounted for through numerous audits,
he reported. He said this is a very fine effort on the part of Ken Davis, auditor, and his work, the city
staff and the Chamber as well as Mr. Joe Henderson as Chairman of the Board. Councilmember Howard made the
u
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MINUTES Of THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 387
CONSIDER ORDINANCE
Consider Ordinance No 89 -13 approving a certificate of obligation for claim and delivery of a rear-loading
garbage truck in the amount of $62.985 at an interest rate of 7.03 percent as bid by J. H. Neiderhofer.
Mr. Pipes presented this ordinance, the caption of which is as follows:
ORDINANCE NO. 89 -13
AN ORDINANCE APPROVING CLAIM AND DELIVERY OF CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION;
AND CONTAINING OTHER PROVISIONS RELATED HERETO
Councilmember Barrett made the motion to approve of this ordinance as presented and Councilmember
Howard seconded the motion All were in favor and the motion passed unanimously.
CONSIDER BIDS
Consider bid No 89 -27 for roofing repairs to Commercial Coating Company in the amount of $33,735 as
budgeted in general and utility funds
The Council was advised by a memorandum from Mr. Mark Bosma, Purchasing Agent, that it is the City's
intention to purchase the removal of existing roofing, making necessary decking repairs, and install new
roofs on four city buildings. He then recommended, out of the three bids received (the other two were for
$49,575.30 and $51,765.82), that the lowest bid meeting specifications, which is Commercial Coating Company
in the amount of $33,735 be approved. Councilmember Knotts made the motion to approve this low bid and
Councilmember Howard seconded the motion All were in favor and the motion passed unanimously.
Consider bid No 89-29 for a printer for the utility bitting department to Compu-Tech in the amount of
$8,377 as approved in mid -year budget adjustments
City Manager Gene Pipes presented, out of a list of eight other bidders, the low bid of Compu-Tech
for the purchase of one (1) CITOH CI -800 printer for utility billing. Councilmember Barrett made the motion
to approve of this bid and Councilmember Hammock seconded the motion. All were in favor and the motion
passed unanimously.
Consider purchase of a Canon 4540 for City Hall through the State Contract purchasing procedures in the
amount of $11.424
The Council was advised by a memorandum from Mr. Mark Bosma, Purchasing Agent, that it is his
recommendation that the city purchase a Canon NP454ORDF on state contract for use at City Halt.
Councilmember Howard made the motion to approve of this recommendation and Councilmember Knotts seconded the
motion All were in favor and the motion passed unanimously.
CONSIDER BUDGET ADJUSTMENTS
Consider the monthly tax reports for March and April; the budget report for the month ended April 30: and
the budget adjustments and summary of budget changes to -date (including personnel allocations in the Finance
Division)
Mayor Monday presented these documents and asked the Council for their approval of the budget
adjustments not previously approved. Councilmember Howard made the motion to approve of the budget
adiustments and Councilmember Hammock seconded the motion. Mayor Monday asked if there were any questions
on any of the documents presented. There being none, she asked for a vote on the motion. All were in favor
and the motion passed unanimously.
MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P" 388
CONSIDER MUNICIPAL COURT STAFFING CHANGE
Mayor Monday advised this item has been pulled from the agenda because the City Attorney is out of
CONSIDER TAX ATTORNEY RECOMMENDATION
Mr. Gene Pipes, City Manager, said Mr. Shiever has indicated his recommendation may involve pending
itigation involving a couple of tax clients. He said pending the Council's scheduling arrangement, he
ould like to post a continuation of this meeting for an emergency executive session or a continuance of
his meeting as an executive session for noon tomorrow so that he may brief the Council. He said Mr.
hiever is contacting the other taxing entities tonight concerning a couple of these accounts. Mr. Pipes
aid without Mr. Scott Bounds, City Attorney here to advise the Council on the situation, Mr. Shiever said
t would be pending litigation and his recommendation is to file suit for the taxes owed the city. He said
n this particular case, Mr. Shiever, at this particular time, is not prepared to make such a recommendation
!ithout consultation with his client, the City of Huntsville, in executive session preliminary to making
hat recommendation public. After some discussion among the Council, it was decided to continue this
MAYOR'S REPORT - -JANE MONDAY
Mayor Monday said the city Council will need to authorize the City Attorney to initiate that action.
Mayor Monday noted she has some 47 or more questions and answers to present in her report. She
ed if the Council would prefer going to Council Action now, then taking a break, and resuming her report
these questions and answers following the break. The Council asked that that procedure be followed.
COUNCIL ACTION
Councilmember Hammock advised he received a letter of commendation from a lady for Gene Pipes and
Le Brown for having helped her with a water tap problem.
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MINUTES OF THE HUNTSVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JUNE 6, 1989 BOOK "P° 389
Councilmember Knotts noted as a result of a recent meeting between the City and the School Board
approval was given to the city to have the canopy removed as it exists in the city's right- of-way o
University Avenue, so as to accommodate the water line project.
MEDIA INQUIRY
The media were not present at this time. The Council then recess for five minutes.
FORMAL MEETING RECONVENED
Mayor Monday advised Mr. Rich Heiland, the Publisher of The Huntsville Item, suggested during the
break that The Item print all the questions and their answers. She said this is a very generous offer.
She said if we can get that to them tomorrow they can get it in Friday's paper. She said she did not see a
Lot of sense in the Council reading this information to themselves for an hour and one -half tonight if The
Huntsville Item will print them verbatim. She asked if agreeable with the Council, the city will give Mr.
Heiland this information. The Council concurred with that procedure. Mayor Monday advised the Council will
all receive a copy as soon as it is prepared.
RECESS UNTIL 5:00 P.M. ON WEDNESDAY, JUNE 7. 1989
The Mayor then recessed the meeting until June 7, 1989 at 5:00 P.M. when it will continue in
emergency executive session to discuss pending litigation concerning delinquent tax accounts as directed
the Tax Attorney for the local jurisdictions, Mr. Jerry Shiever.
JUNE 7_1989 EMERGENCY EXECUTIVE SESSION
The Council met in an emergency executive session at 5:00 P.M. to discuss pending litigation
concerning delinquent tax accounts as directed by the tax attorney for the local jurisdictions, Mr. Jerry
Shiever. No formal action was taken in this session. The Council did not reconvene the regular meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
Respectfully submitted,
Ruth DeShaw, City Secretary
June 7, 1989