MIN CC 08/25/1992CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF AUGUST 25, 1992 BOOK "W' "97
MINUTES OF T
CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS, LOCATED AT 1212 AVENUE M IN THE CITY OF HUNTSVILLE, COUNTY OF
WALKER, TEXAS AT 5:15 P.M.
The Council met in a regular session with the following members present
W. H. Hodges, Mayor Officers:
Ila G. Gaines William H. Knotts, Jr. Gene Pipes, City Manager
Ronald L Lange Gary Bell Scott Bounds, City Attorney
William B. Green James L Carter Melba Byers, City Secretary
Charles Robinson Dan S. Davis
CITIZENS INPUTIINQUIRY
Mayor Hodges. There are two citizens who would like to address council and reminded everyone who addressed council
that we request a limit of five minutes or less with their remarks.
James A. Black voiced concerns regarding the tax equity initiative for E.M.S. operations with the Walker County Hospital
District Board. Mr. Black was concerned about the citizens living in the county being excessively taxed in comparison to the
citizens living in the city. Mr. Black stated he had a better proposal -- to simply change the sales tax, which would be more fair
since it would be paid by everybody who buys, not just property owners.
Mayor Hodges responded. You indicated that 75% of the users live within the city limits. Let me assure you that 100%
of the users live in the Walker County Hospital District We are talking about tax equity. City residents are also county residents
and are also hospital district residents. We pay three times. A non -city resident pays twice. So we don't think that is fair. You
are welcome to remain and listen to discussion which will be on the agenda in about 15 minutes. There will be a complete
discussion among the councilmembers on how to approach this.
Ann Holder presented her request for additional funding for the proposed library budget. Mrs. Holder stated goals and
objectives had been adopted which they felt could be met in the next year with funding. A packet detailing requests and an
' operations summary was distributed to each councilmember. Mrs. Holder stated, the Library Board has applied for a grant from
the Houston Area Library System for one -half of the amount we are requesting from the council. A decision will be made on
this grant on September 23, 1992. Mrs. Holder also requested additional staff in order to increase library services to the public.
' A summary of services for last year will be provided to you.
REGULAR SESSION • CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Hodges called the regular session to order. Invocation by Councilmember Gaines.
CONSIDER MINUTES OF AUGUST 18, 1992
Councilmember Knolls made a motion to approve the minutes of August 18, 1992, as amended. and Councilmember
Bell seconded the motion. All were in favor and the motion passed unanimously. NOTE: Councilmember Bell noted the total
number of days of vacation under "Consider Proposal of Minority Recruitment" should read 4 instead of 40. This correction was
made before printing of the minutes for the Official Bound Book.
ATTENDING CITIZENS
J. T. Crawford, Jr. made a proposal to council regarding a field house facility at Kate Barr Ross Park for the Huntsvile
Boys Baseball Association. Dr. Crawford thanked council for their help. We have just completed our seasoq which basically
involved 802 children ranging in ages from 5 through 18, 47% which are county residents and do not pay for any of our facilities.
We appreciate you taking care of the youth of walker county as well as our citizens in town. There were 68 teams involved,
approximately 1018 regular season games, and our team played in 54 post season games. We won district in three out of five
leagues, we had a second place state tournament team this year, last year we had third place, next year we are going to win it, we
used approximately 3,563 balls, and our expenditures and receipts are almost $107,000, so this is by no means a small operation.
This year, we put in a little over $60,000 in our facilities and I know you matched every penny we put in. I appreciate your help
because we have some fine, fine facilities. When people from all over the country come to Huntsville and see our facilities they
realize that we really have a town, a batch of kids, a city that backs our community and we have some facilities out there as good
as anybody's. Our bond issue didn't do exactly what we had hoped and I think things are going to get tight in about three years.
We are going to need some help. Other than that, we had a great season. We look for a better season next year. Our facilities
are upgraded and the field is going to be one of the finest in the area. Our tee-ball/soccer combination fields worked out fantastic.
The girls also played on the combination field. It has been a positive, positive for everybody. We finally got our Parks Board
together. Basically what we are looking at is, and we are in the very early stages, the possibility of use of the trades classes at the
school of which we would have to get some sort of commitment What we are looking at right now is trying to construct a field
CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF AUGUST 25, 1992 BOOK "R" 98
a junior varsity team, and a varsity team, of which right now they dress out in the parking lot. They have no place to meet, dress ;'�.,'
or do anything plus store their equipment. So, we have looked at the facilities we have now and possibly constructing something
for them. It would be a totally private funded project and would not involve any city funds or any city personnel. The only thing
we request is Mr. Glenn Isbell's expertise in making sure we are meeting the City standards in buildings and codes and stuff like i
that. He has been a tremendous asset particularly with the fields and construction that has been done through the years. What
we are looking at is probably a facility of about 900 to 1200 feet. The location is still a little bit up in the air. We are talking with j
Johnny Poteete, Public Works, and Ray Black, Parks and Recreation, about exactly where it could be constructed to meet the
criteria of the other park facilities with brick to match all of the other facilities. We are looking for an asset to the park. Again,
as you remember, we negotiated last year and the school put in some funding for the high school and we are looking at about two
years away when they will start leasing those facilities and we feel like this is something that should fait into that package. We 1,
have brought our program a long, long way and this is one step we feet like is going to help bring our team together and start J
putting Huntsville in a real competitive mode on a high school baseball level. We did take it to the parks board. They were all
in agreement with basically what we are doing. There were some questions about some of the finer details of which we need to
bring to you first. I am asking your approval to proceed with this and give our trades class the opportunity to help put us on the
agenda and then work with the Parks Department to get this location finalized.
Mayor Hodges asked Dr. Crawford to remain at the podium for questions. City Manager Pipes was asked to recap the "
meeting of the Parks Board.
City Manager Pipes. The Parks Board did consider the situation with this proposal. It was a hastily called meeting.
The stipulations are six items which are generally along the lines of what Dr. Crawford just outlined. The only item that was not
mentioned was the possible use by remodeling or making some modifications to the bathhouse facility. The facility already exists
and matches all other facilities. It's got some possibilities. In fact, for nine months of the year it isn't used at all. So, there is
the possibility we may save a bunch of money. The Parks Board has basically said, yes, we think this is a fine idea under these
sets of circumstances and conditions. They haven't had a site plan or a footprint or anything to look at in terms of concept.
Councilmember Green made a motion to approve the concept (recommendation of the Parks Board), with a second by
Councilmember Lange.
,
Mayor Hodges. I think this is the proper procedure -- on the concept. That allows Dr. Crawford to go back to his group
to get on the building trades schedule agenda for possible work on that site regardless if it's expansion or remodeling of the
swimming pool locker room or whether we build it. I think probably the best way to go is to continue to work through the Parks
Department and rely on their expertise and advice strongly.
Councilmember Lance. My experience at the baseball field, especially during baseball season, is rest room facilities are
totally inadequate. Has there been any discussion with this project to maybe upgrade the rest rooms.
Dr. Crawford. No, there hasn't because of our potential of having to locate this away from where the people we. Right
now, we are either looking at over by the big parking lot or by the swimming pool, which makes the access hard. I am very much .
aware of bow had it can be.
Councilmember Knotts. I would feel like with the amount of money that is already invested in the bathhouse, especially _.
plumbing, it probably would be some cheaper to use this. Also, would this be adequate for both teams.
Dr. Crawford. Everywhere we go, most have their field house facility where they dress out and have their meetings.
But, most visitors come on a bus, the game is over, you get on the bus and go home. Most kids come dressed out. This is the
high school team we are talking about.
Mayor Hodges. We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye, and opposed by like sign. 'fie motion passed
unanimously.
MAYOR'S ACTrVYrY REPORT
CONSIDER A TAX EQUITY INITIATIVE FOR E.M.S. OPERATIONS:
Mayor Hodges. I would like to immediately get into the E.M.S. question that I brought up. In your packet are two
things: (1) a memo of explanation from me and how I feel about it, and (2) a proposed letter to the Walker County Hospital
District. I would like for you to refer to the letter to the Hospital District. The second paragraph sums it up, which states,
"philosophically we believe that all taxpayers should be paying equally for E.M.S. services. Today, city resident taxpayers are
charged three times for the subsidy necessary to keep the system operating on an annual budgetary basis. We don't believe that
'
this is fair. A city taxpayer pays the E.M.S. subsidy three times (City- County- Hospital) while a non -city resident pays for E.M.S.
subsidy only two times (County- Hospital)." That sums up what I feel about the whole thing and that is the reason I am requesting
that we present this letter to the hospital board- I ask for your approval.
CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF AUGUST 25, 1992 BOOK "R" 99
carrying an unfair burden in terms of fire, parks, airport and the list goes on. I very strongly support your initiative in this and
hope this is the first in a number of moves to shift the responsibility to the people who are actually using the facilities.
Councilmember Bell made a motion to approve the E.M.S. initiative with a second by Councilmember Knotts.
Councilmember Knotts. Unless we reduce the city tax, then we are going to be double taxed again if the Walker County
" Hospital District increases their tax. To keep from double taxing the city residents again, we are going to have to do something
to reduce the city taxes.
Mayor Hodges. That is a fair comment and question. The problem is, we have lost revenues due to devaluation. Also,
the cost to providing services to the city continues to increase. At the end of the current fiscal year, we will have about a $400,000
deficit. Now, whether we are able to take the E.M.S. savings and reduce the rate to the taxpayers or whether we simply take that
same money and eliminate the bleeding of the general fund is a question that council has to address. This we need to talk about
"i afterward.
Councilmember Lange. I have had a couple of discussions with some of our neighbors in the county and their argument
is always that they pay sales tax in the City of Huntsville, which is supposedly for things such as this. But these people must realize
that we, the city residents, also pay sales tax. We pay all of the same taxes that every citizen in the county does. The only thing
different is the city residents, in addition, pay city taxes. We are being taxed twice and it is not for just E.M.S., it is for many,
many other things.
!, Mayor Hodges. When those county visitors come to Huntsville to shop, and we definitely appreciate it, they enjoy city
streets, city police protection, fire protection and other city services.
Councilmember Bell. Whenever the county residents get in trouble with rabid animals, etc, they don't call the county,
they call the city dog catcher, and that is fine and we are perfectly glad to service them, the point is that we are subsidizing a full
range of services.
Councilmember Carter. I think Councilmember Knott's comments are very logical in a sense that we are not going to
4. save the city taxpayers any money unless we reduce the taxes equivalent to what we are talking about saving here. So, I would
say that there is another perspective. I think the Mayor started expressing that a moment ago and that is, we may not save the
city taxpayers this amount of money if we take this action. But, there may be other things that we need to do for those city
residents that this money can be applied to. So, I think we have to be conscious that this may not be a tax savings in that sense
but it will free up the money and that is what you were saying Maybe those services that need to be done, and I am not talking
about frills or luxuries, is where this money can be applied. I've got some of the same questions. I think your logic is correct but
there is a difference in what the purpose of this is and how we are going to use the money.
Councilmember Green. Somewhat along the same line, and in fact, since we have been operating at a budget deficit
for the last year, even more than a year, one of the things that this may allow us to do is simply prevent the increase in tax rates
to the city. Again, you are right in the sense that we are not going to save any money except for the possibility to prevent an
increase in tax rates which otherwise we may very well have to do just to provide the same level of services without running a
continual budget deficit I am not voting for a tax increase at all. What I am saying is this may be a mechanism to more evenly
disburse the costs. One other aspect of this is, although it may very well be that 75% of the calls are actually outside of the city
does not mean that is 75% of the cost. Even if we have a disproportionate number of the calls inside the city limits that doesn't
mean that the cost of operating inside the city is identical to the cost of going outside the city. In fact, it may very well be a much
more even distribution when you figure on a cost basis rather than a call basis.
Councilmember Davis. I will remind everyone that I represent this council on the E.M.S. Board. 1, too, have been
concerned with all of the issues that have been raised here. Councilmember Knotts, you are exactly right about if we transfer this
tax burden to the hospital district it is not likely that we would see much reduction in the city tax rate. On the other hand, I would
also remind you that the hospital district has a broader tax base to apply it to, so it won't fall totally back. There would be some
relief to the city taxpayers. There is another aspect of this service that I want to make everyone aware of and I think that is the
quality of the service. I think the Mayor is correct in his letter saying that it is a top notch service and one that we can all be
proud of. I think it is important that in transferring this responsibility we not lose that aspect of the service. The last paragraph
of the letter addresses that point. Having served on this board for the last eight months, I can assure you that the city provides
' a lot of meaningful input to the management and I think it would be a mistake to lose that input and I think that can be prevented
by the mechanism that is addressed in the last paragraph, which is, the city offering to contract with the Hospital District to
operate E.M.S. I think that is an important aspect of it and one that I would encourage adoption of.
Councilmember Gaines. I agree with Councilmember Davis. My concern is quality of service. I hear a lot of
compliments about what is being done by E.M.S. and I was concerned when we first talked about this fearing that we might lose
CrrY COUNCIL MEETING OF AUGUST 25, 1992
BOOK. "R"
100
I agree that that money can be used for something else that might prevent our having to raise taxes. So, in a sense, we are gaining.
I feel if we can work on the premises that you have outlined in your letter that we can come out not only with a lesser tax but
i
can retain the quality of service that we now enjoy.
Mayor Hodges. If, in fact, we had a surplus in the general fund in the annual operating budget, I would recommend
that we reduce the taxes in a like amount. Now, we have a motion and a second. All in favor please say aye, opposed by like
sign. Councilmember Knotts voted "against". The motion did pass.
ANNUAL TEXAS MUNICIPAL LEAGUE CONFERENCE:
As you know, we have the Texas Municipal League Meeting coming up in October. I had asked City Manager Pipes
to look into the possibility, as a result of the recommendation by the management study that the city employees get more exposure
to training seminars, of chartering a bus to take city employees for a one day visit to the exhibits and attend seminars. City
Manager Pipes stated staff had looked into preliminary costs. We can get an employee registered for $12.00 and the bus cost is
nominal. S. D. Schindler stated the bus is $650.00 and I think it is $30.00 for an all day pass. So we are looking at something less
than $2,000.00. Mayor Hodges requested that City Manager Pipes come back to council with specifics.
TIIE CITY OF HUNTSVILLE'S EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS PROCEDURES:
City Manager Pipes stated that Police Chief Eckhardt will give a report on the tracking of the storm since it crossed
Florida early Sunday night/Monday morning. Staff has been checking generators, sharpening all saws and doing everything
necessary to assemble the necessary equipment to carry on manpower, if necessary, in the eventuality it might come this way. We
have been at stage three on our preparedness system for the last couple of days. The last coordinates I received was about 4:45.
Police Chief Eckhardt stated, we are at stage three. At any time, we could upgrade to stage two. There are four stages:
" stage four is being aware that a hurricane or a disaster is a possibility; stage three is that something is brewing in the horizon; stage
two is where there is a significant possibility that we could have a disaster headed our way; and stage one is that we do have a
disaster or a hurricane, not necessarily a full - fledged disaster. The City is prepared as well as we can be for something like that.
- The big thing that we experience here in Huntsville, unless a hurricane actually comes and hovers on our town, is the impact of
the people fleeing the coast, especially Galveston, coming up here and staying in shelters. That is an area we are making sure
is getting prepared in case that does happen. Realty, at this point and time, there is not a whole lot that we can do other than
what we are doing. The last citing we got on the hurricane is that it has started to take a northward hook towards Louisiana.
CITY MANAGER'S REPORT - GENE PIPES
We will be working on the Work Session items in terms of the budget presentations, so I'll pass at this time.
CITY COUNCILMEMBER ACTION
Councilmember Carter. Herbicide on Normal Park. I wasn't here but I know that the media has covered it. I don't
know what is wrong with Gulf States because every year, two or three times a year, they seem to do something that offends my
sensibilities about their neighborliness as a member of the Huntsville community. I can't believe that they used herbicides in the
community. They put herbicides on a little tree at a telephone pole in my front yard and I don't know why they couldn't come
in with a clipper and in two seconds clip it down. Instead, they put poison on the ground. Mayor Hodges stated, I agree with
Councilmember Cuter one hundred percent. Mayor Hodges requested City Manager Pipes arrange a meeting with Gulf States.
Also, council may need to pass an ordinance regarding use of herbicides inside the city limits. Councilmember Lange stated that
council needed to be very careful when you say no herbicides used within the City of Huntsville. Councilmember Knotts stated
this is a good reason to put these things underground. Councilmember Carter continued. I talked to some of the media people
and they were in agreement. They couldn't believe what Gulf States did. And, the worse thing is, once it was brought to their
attention, they compounded the problem by going in and cutting it all down. Now what we have is the bare area that has poison
in it that might not even come back green. It is absolute idiocy.
Mayor Hodges. Councilmembers Green, Davis and I have an appointment with the Hospital District at 6:00 P.M. So,
Councilmember Bell, if you will be kind enough to finish this City Council Meeting, we will meet back here about 6:30.
Councilmember Carter. Several weeks ago, I asked about the church on Sycamore Avenue that destroyed a piece of
property. It is their property, but they destroyed it in my judgement. In the destruction of their own property, they also cut six
city trees. I had asked, since we had fined an individual on Avenue O and required that individual to replant the trees, if we knew
in fact they had done that, since they agreed to replant some trees to replace the city trees. City Attorney Bounds stated he would
follow up on that, and yes there was an agreement that they would do that Councilmember Carter stated he would like to see
the trees.
Councilmember Carter. Drainage work on 18th Street I know this is also private property, but it is also two doors down
from me and I have been hearing all kinds of banging and clanging and lots of rock being put into the area. I would like to know
CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF AUGUST 25,' 1992 BOOK "R" 101
... if:staff-is obsset6ng mpenisi imp
?; plan and he is biding by that plan. Councilmember Lange stated he is trying to protect his own property and in doing so' he is
probably going to protect the city's property also. If he hadn't, his house would be gone. Councilmember Carter .then added,
drainage doesn't only affect your property. If he changes the drainage in that front area, it affects people downstream. My
concern is what he is doing doesn't adversely affect the people downstream. Councilmember Lange stated, he has not altered the
'.. stream. All he has done is put rocks in. He is putting gabions that has stopped the erosion on the side of the creek. The City
Council, two weeks ago, turned down the bid and the gentleman is trying his best to save his two houses. Councilmember Carter
stated, I just want the City to make sure he does the correct thing there. Glenn Isbell, Director of Engineering stated he is
essentially putting it back like it was. It is a rock wall there and he is using a rock gabions type of construction.
Councilmember Carter. I wasn't here for the discussion of the salvage operation. I think it was regrettable, in fact, I
agreed with those of you who made comments about accusations being made and they should not have been made in that manner,
at least. If there is material missing we have a problem. It doesn't mean it is the city people we have a problem with, but none-
the-less, it is something we need to address. What I am asking from City Council is that we not throw this program out because
we might have some irritation about the manner in which it is being conducted right now. I am very pleased that you all agreed
to reduce the cost down to $200.00 because I think in the long term, both from HGAC and the State of Texas, we are going to
have to do this type of thing in terms of waste management. So, all I'm asking is that we don't identify the salvage operation with
that incident. I think the salvage operation is a good project and ought to be supported over the long term. It may not make
". money, we may only break even, and we may even lose a little bit. But, we may lose less that way than by doing other waste
management.
Councilmember Carter. Finally, minority recruitment for the police department. Iwas also pleased to we that that was
brought up and came up again tonight. This doesn't imply any criticism of the work of the police department or any unhappiness
of personnel existing in the police department. But, I think it is unfortunate that we have either one minority representative or
none yet The only report I got was that that one might leave. We obviously, in my judgement and in the management study,
don't have adequate minority representation on the police department I am real pleased with the Chiers efforts and incentive.
I just think that we ought to keep working on it I think we ought to go more broadly than SHSU -C7 Center for recruitment and
I think that we can even think about minority officers at some point. I know that is delicate. You don't want to elevate someone
above other people already in the police force who have earned positions. But, I think a long term solution is at least possibly
having a minority officer which might make it easier to recruit other minorities to work in the police department. All I am saying
is, let's keep a philosophical discussion going on on minority recruitment and keep making the effort and understand that that
ought to be a goal in the City.
Councilmember Lange. Dr. Carter, I want to especially point this out to you. Somebody yesterday pointed out on the
disaster that went through the Miami area a very interesting fact to me. This fact was that the City of Miami itself did not lose
power and the reason is that all of their electricity is underground.
MEDIA INQUIRIES
None.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Pro Tern Bell recessed the regular session to a Budget Work Session (Item No. 9 on the Agenda) at 6:08 P.M.
We will reconvene in the Conference Room. Everyone is welcome to attend and there are sandwiches, coffee, etc.
40444c) 4� —
Melba Byers, City Secretary